Channel72

Jeez, those movie ticket prices…

fmalover said:

In that scenario I fear Lucasfilm would have turned into Filoni’s fanfiction playground. I’m glad we aren’t living in that world.

Wait what? I am actually living in that world. Can you help me build a transdimensional portal so I can come to your timeline, where Lucasfilm isn’t just Dave Filoni’s fan-fiction playground?

^ Also their uniform sucks. In ANH, I always thought those soldiers in the Tantive IV were like Alderaanian security or military forces. But somehow this uniform became the standard New Republic uniform.

JadedSkywalker said:

I feel like what was set up in Empire Vader tempting Luke to join him to overthrow the Emperor was a plot line poorly used in JEDI, or was it dropped completely?

It feels like it was basically dropped completely. From a certain perspective, you can argue that Luke and Vader DID actually team up to defeat the Emperor - but that’s obviously missing the point. When Luke turns himself in on Endor, Vader and Luke have a brief discussion. The subject of overthrowing the Emperor is never brought up for some reason. Vader seems to feel at this point that he has no choice but to turn Luke over to his boss.

Vader’s potential disloyalty to his master is only briefly explored with a single line of dialogue, in the scene where Palpatine tells Vader that Luke will willingly turn himself in. Palpatine asks Vader “Are you sure your feelings on this matter are clear?” (meaning, are you sure you won’t fuck me over and side with your son?) But other than that, it’s never explored. The plot mechanics kind of set things up so that Vader is backed into a corner and has no choice to turn Luke over to the Emperor once Luke turns himself in. It’s really very unsatisfactory in light of what was set up in Empire Strikes Back.

I never read the Republic Commando series, but I always hated the TCW version of Mandalorians. I’m familiar at least with the old school KOTOR depiction of ancient Mandalorians, with their amazing armor and Basilisk War Droids and all that. The whole saga of Mandalore the Ultimate is awesome and an incredible bit of Stars Wars mythology. It’s such a shame that this style of Mandalorians was never realized in live action or even cartoons. Instead we get this sterile, weird dystopian cube city that belongs in THX-1138 or something. The Mandalorians were originally more or less the Star Wars version of Klingons, only way cooler due to being more shrouded in mystery and having suits with cool gadgets.

It’s cool that the Republic Commando series integrated the Mandalorian warrior-culture stuff into the Clone army. It’s also still kind of baffling to me that the Prequels never even once address the glaring ethical problems with using an army of clones. It would have added some much needed depth for the Jedi to at least talk about it, even if they shrug it off as a necessary evil or something.

Some more thoughts about Yoda and his relationship with the Rebellion:

Overthinking this a bit, I guess I have to agree that it makes very little sense that Yoda isn’t more actively involved with the Rebellion. Sure, he’s not a warrior like he was in the Prequels - but so what? He’s a Jedi with the ability to see the future (at least partially). He could be an invaluable asset for Rebel military intelligence. They could ask him to use the Force to ascertain the probability that some mission will succeed or fail, or use the Force to predict what the Imperials will do in certain situations. The ability to see the future (even if it’s not 100% reliable) would be invaluable in terms of military strategy and intelligence gathering.

But this is supposed to be a fantasy and Yoda is an archetype: he’s the wise master that lives in a remote location and will semi-reluctantly train those who are willing to learn.

I just watched the first episode.

Maybe I’m just getting tired of Star Wars content as of late, or maybe I’m just too easily disappointed by nerd nitpicks that occur to me. But like… I turn on this show, and the first episode starts out with this crazy battle in a dark forest at night on the planet Dathomir. Robots are fighting witches who use space bow-and-arrows, General Grievous comes along and has a lightsaber fight, etc.

And all I can think is, does anyone remember that Star Wars has space ships in it? Why the hell is this battle even happening? Why doesn’t General Grievous just nuke the whole continent from orbit? He’s clearly not interested in taking prisoners.

I know. I know. We’re WAY past that at this point. But remember how in the OT, Vader’s generals wanted to destroy Echo Base from orbit, and only resorted to a ground invasion because of the shield? Remember how the old EU had this concept of “Base Delta Zero” (nuking a planet from orbit)?? Remember space battles??

Starting with the Prequels and their silly Napoleonic-style land battles, Star Wars has basically completely stopped trying to be even 1% science-fiction anymore. I know Star Wars was always mostly fantasy (the Force, giant space worms, etc.) but the OT and old EU incorporated plenty of military sci-fi elements. Large spaceships have lasers that can be used to destroy Rebel bases from orbit. But ever since the Prequels - and especially with the Filoni cartoons - Star Wars is often closer to pure high-fantasy, with occasional visits to space. The action has shifted almost entirely to lightsaber battles instead of dog fights in space.

Also, an “energy” bow and arrow is completely stupid and impossible to take seriously. I’m sure someone will point out how Chewbacca had a “space cross-bow” in the OT, but whatever.

TLDR: Disgruntled nerd rants about Star Wars, news at 11

fmalover said:

Channel72 said:

the main characters are given arbitrary leadership roles that don’t suit their previous story-arcs

Lando being promoted to General in no time sticks out like a sore thumb.

Just throw in a line about the “battle of Taneb” or whatever and I’m sure the audience will buy it.

Seriously though, it’s not just Lando. Why are Han and Leia specifically leading the Endor ground team? They’ve never been established as “Seal team 6” commando types, and really this is something that ANY high-ranking rebel leader could do. It doesn’t utilize Leia’s diplomacy skills or Han’s smuggling skills. Not to mention, from the perspective of the Rebellion leadership, Han was last seen trying to leave the Rebellion to go pay off Jabba, and then spent the next year MIA frozen in carbonite. And now they’re putting him in charge of this super-critical mission? The overall problem is that ROTJ is the first time in Star Wars where the main characters’ involvement in the main story (at least after Act 1) seems contrived and unnatural.

ROTJ is a rare case in that there are just so many things fundamentally wrong with it (the Jabba sequence is disconnected from the rest of the movie, the whole Endor sequence is bland and poorly-paced, the main characters are given arbitrary leadership roles that don’t suit their previous story-arcs), but at the same time there’s just so many things that are awesome about it: the space battle over Endor, the confrontation between Luke, Vader and the Emperor, and one of the most poignant and perfect endings in movie history.

Spoilers:

I was afraid something stupid would happen like Omega suddenly discovers she can use the Force. Fortunately, that never happened. There’s a scene where the lead Imperial scientist (Dr. Hemlock) unleashes some sort of experimental clone super-soldiers that use light-saber like weapons, and I was afraid something dumb would happen like these soldiers would be able to use the Force. Fortunately, the writers had some restraint and no Force antics occurred. We also never find out what Project Necromancer is, so we’re left to assume the obvious implication. But it doesn’t matter, because the project gets promptly cancelled by Tarkin because the Imperial scientists forgot to backup all their data to their Imperial iCloud account. (I also like how Tarkin orders some random scientist to “redirect all funding to project Stardust”, as if some random scientist would have the authority to do something like that.)

The main plot throughout the season is derived from the same template used in The Mandalorian: evil Imperial scientists are doing “vague science shit” related to something with cloning and Midichlorians, and their entire project depends on capturing a single Force-sensitive child whom they need for their nefarious experiments. The details of their project are never fleshed out, but we’re left with vague hints that these Imperial experiments somehow tie in with later events related to cloning Palpatine, or Snoke or whatever. The Mandalorian decided to eventually finally explain that the goal was to create Force-sensitive super-soldier clones, whereas The Bad Batch wisely never explains anything. In both cases, the project goes nowhere, and serves only as a plot device to explain why bad guys are after a little child and good guys have to protect the child.

Anchorhead said:

Channel72 said:

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

Officially, it’s all make-believe.
I’ve never understood the power people hand over to Lucasfilm\Disney. Watch what you like, ignore the rest.

For the record, I’m not addressing you specifically. Just a general statement on how some people really struggle to reconcile the stories Lucas, Lucasfilm, and Disney, and various authors have created over the years.

It’s a universal thing - not specific to Lucasfilm. The idea of “canonical” stories versus apocryphal “fan-fiction” goes back to the Bible. In that case, “canonical content” implied official approval of the Church, as opposed to the Disney/Lucasfilm story-group - but it’s the same idea. Whether it be religious adherents, Tolkien fans, or Star Wars fans, people care about “canon” because they care about experiencing a shared (fictional) reality that other fans/followers can agree is “valid” and actually “happened” as part of the larger on-going story. If you throw out canon, you’re left with something bordering on solipsism - isolated individual fandoms.

Of course, I actually agree with you. The concept of “canon”, especially as applied to something everyone agrees is fictional, is kind of stupid. It helps in terms of creating a shared experience that has agreed-upon boundaries for the purpose of fan enjoyment and discussion. But the downside is that really shitty content always ends up in the canon. For me, I like to consider the OT as canonical, and Andor as “deutero-canonical” (to borrow a stupid term from the Catholic Church). Everything else is pseudepigrapha and fan-fiction.

^ K-2SO is one of the best new characters introduced in Disney Star Wars. He’s a different sort of comic relief than C-3PO. Most of the humor with C3PO is other characters reacting to him, especially Han Solo getting pissed and always telling C3PO to shut up. K2SO is more about sarcastic quips, often involving his superiority to humans. Some of his best lines:

“I find that answer vague and unconvincing.”

“Not me. I can survive in space.” - after the human crew members lament the possibility of dying in space.

I am pretty confident that Tony Gilroy will properly handle K2SO in Season 2.

Yoda can’t help the Rebels because he’s old and he’s basically just a teacher, not a warrior. The Prequels messed this up by portraying Yoda as a warrior.

As for stuff in the OT I don’t like:

Well, ANH and ESB are probably my favorite movies of all time - but they’re not perfect. ANH in particular has a lot of problems, which is understandable because it was the first movie, and a lot of “Star Wars lore” hadn’t yet been established. But I have to admit, the entire ending to ANH barely makes any sense:

• Leia takes the Falcon to Yavin IV, despite knowing they’re being tracked. She spent the entire movie - even endured torture - trying to keep the location of the Rebel base a secret. But at the end, after strongly suspecting they’re being tracked, she’s just like “well whatever hopefully it all works out.”
• You can argue she did this strategically, to lure Tarkin and the Death Star to Yavin IV, so the Rebels would have a chance to take it out - but from her perspective this would have been a completely insane gamble. She didn’t know if the Death Star plans would reveal any weakness, or even if they did, whether it was something they could discover and figure out how to exploit in the few hours they would have before the Death Star arrived.
• Even if this was supposed to be some insane strategic gamble on Leia’s part, they still make no effort to evacuate the base, like they do with Echo Base in Empire Strikes Back. The moment Leia arrived at Yavin, they should have initiated an evacuation of all personnel except for the fighter pilots necessary to attack the Death Star.
• And then even after they miraculously blow up the Death Star via Luke’s one-in-a-million shot, instead of immediately evacuating, they still don’t evacuate the base. Instead, they stay around for an award ceremony. It’s unclear why a fleet of Star Destroyers doesn’t immediately show up at Yavin and obliterate the base.

That last point is likely partially a result of ANH being the first movie. With only ANH in mind, we can perhaps infer that the Rebels didn’t evacuate Yavin IV because they figured it would take weeks or months for the nearest Star Destroyer to arrive at Yavin. (Later movies made this an impossible option, as hyperspace travel seems to take only a few hours most of the time - perhaps a few days at most.)

These issues with the Death Star assault likely occurred because originally, the ending to ANH was written without any “ticking clock” countdown as the Death Star comes into firing range of Yavin IV. Originally, the Death Star didn’t come to Yavin at all. Rather, the Rebels just someone know where the Death Star is (I guess it was still parked at Alderaan), and after discovering the weakness they fly X-wing squadrons to the Death Star. I think Marcia Lucas suggested that the Death Star should actually show up at Yavin, which introduces a much-needed “ticking clock”, so the Rebels have limited time and a dramatic count-down before the Death Star blows up Yavin. But unfortunately, this introduces the side problem that it makes Leia look incredibly reckless. I thought of a solution to this once that probably makes everything work, providing both the ticking clock and not making Leia look crazy - but I wouldn’t bother trying to implement a fan-edit because most people don’t have any problems with the ending to ANH.

Strict adherence to canon is probably difficult to maintain over long time periods. Star Wars has been around for almost 50 years, and is now split between two “official” continuities (Legends and Canon) - both of which are internally inconsistent. In another 50 years, there will probably be a more complicated set of different continuities, especially as technology eventually enables movie-quality fan-film productions or different studios get their hands on Star Wars IP rights.

Before Lucas sold to Disney, he was working on a more adult-themed live action Star Wars show called Underworld, which was set on lower Coruscant and would focus on various criminal elements. That premise sounded cool - but we’ll never know how it would have actually been implemented (the test footage looks raw but kind of awesome in my opinion).

Disney canceled that project, obviously. But it’s at least something to consider when weighing what we ultimately got with Disney against what an independent Lucasfilm may have done.

I mostly hate what Disney has done with Star Wars, especially with the Sequel Trilogy. But the thing is, Lucas also mostly sucks. The Prequels are as bad as the Disney crap, just in very different ways. So my feeling about whether or not Star Wars would be better off without Disney is sort of just “shrug?”. I mean yeah, Disney mostly sucks, but it’s not like Lucas was that great either.

The tragic reality is that the “good Star Wars movies” (basically Episode 4 and 5) were primarily flukes. They were not really representative of the kind of movies Lucas actually wanted to make. They were lightning in a bottle, benefitting from serendipitous casting and people like Ralph McQuarrie and John Williams, along with many other talented people who weren’t afraid to ignore Lucas’ more questionable inclinations. Even the way they made blockbuster movies back in 1981 is entirely different from the ultra-stream-lined digital production process of today, where directors have much less creative control over expensive special effects shots and lots of decisions are made by committee.

Superweapon VII said:

Part of me wants to object, but I never even finished TLJ, so who am I to claim otherwise?

I certainly agree ROTJ’s weak. I don’t even enjoy watching it anymore. Everything between the sail barge showdown and the lightsaber duel cures me of insomnia.

ROTJ starts to drag badly as soon as they get to Endor. The ending space battle is cool though. The Endor forest sequences are just really slow, long, and visually uninspiring, apart from the speeder bike chase. It’s mostly just Han and Leia walking through the woods in California (a very fan-filmy looking setting), they run into some useless Stormtroopers, they get separated, they spend like 10 years screwing around with Ewoks, they bumble around some more in the woods, etc. etc. And there’s no concurrent B-story line that breaks up all this Endor monotony, except for when we occasionally check in with Vader and the Emperor, both of whom are basically just waiting around.

NFBisms said:

Andor excluded of course, it’s so 70s right down to formally being the grimy thrillers Star Wars '77 would be analyzed as cultural antidote to. The writing is timeless, the mullets and moustaches, even the Niamos beachwear feel so in line with ANH’s time period. And don’t forget the junky analog tech! Machines are big and unwieldy; Dedra has to do what’s basically an archive search by asking an attendant to collect those files from giant tube computers. There are illegible glass interfaces of lines ala Yavin and Hoth, tons of tactile knobs and switches and buttons, etc. Modified AK-47s as the symbolic weapon of revolution circa the 70s is loaded imagery, just like the modified StGs and Mausers in the OT evoke WWII. I was hyped as hell when Cassian was sentenced to prison by a 70s credit card machine.

And it makes it thematic. Nemik has a whole right-to-repair bit about technology being lost or forgotten; one of the many ways Empire imposes its will is through centralized uniform technology, moving populace away from the different lines of communication and information they maybe once had access to. Seperatist projects like tactical droids with databases in their head, Techno Union touch screens, or Umbaran bubble fighters fall by the wayside in distinctly important ways. It’s great!

Andor is really something else. Yeah, it really captured that Star Wars 1977 vibe. That Imperial double-agent that Luthen meets in some grimy basement on Coruscant is like the quintessential 1970s Imperial bureaucrat. I imagine he says things like “data tapes” a lot. Also, the ISB headquarters reminded me of the sterile, all-white computer terminal room on the Nostromo in Alien, where Ripley discovers she’s getting screwed over by a soulless mega-corporation.

As for The Acolyte: I don’t know much about the High Republic, but from what little I’ve read, it’s supposed to depict an age of prosperity and exploration, where the status-quo institutions are praised as bastions of democracy and peaceful space exploration. It sounds like something spiritually more akin to classic Star Trek than Star Wars. I would think this should entail a completely unique aesthetic: something more grandiose, ceremonial and ornate, but also incorporating some sleek, sci-fi Star Trek-inspired visuals. I’m thinking diverse crews of humans/aliens wearing colorful robes/uniforms while commanding sleek, curvy and shiny Mon Calamari-esque star ships.

But… unfortunately the trailer looks like the same-old Filoni-vomit similar to Kenobi or Mandalorian Season 3. I’ll give this show a chance because at least it’s superficially trying to be something different. I mean, I never expected Andor to be so incredible, so you never know.

fmalover said:

Despite its detractors, the Canto Bight casino felt much more like a part of the SW universe than any other attempt Disney has made at replicating the OT look.

There, I said it.

I agree, and I hate The Last Jedi. I also like how all the aliens at Canto Bight were original designs - instead of the usual four or so Star Wars alien species from Mos Eisley that we see copy-pasted all over the galaxy.

Sirius said:

MORC said:

Cool, but are we going to ever see an animated series like this for OT characters?

Yeah, an animated series post-ROTJ would be great.

I mean, I’d love that. But (A) I’m not confident Disney would execute it well and (B) I get the sense that like 75% of Star Wars fans these days are mostly Prequel fans. The passionate OT fans are dwindling, because we’re all getting older. But it would be interesting to poll a randomly selected sample of Star Wars fans about this.

It’s weird to think about, but the OT is now such a small part of Star Wars. I get the sense the average Star Wars fan today is more enthusiastic about Prequel stuff like Anakin/Ahsoka/General Grievous, etc. Just this morning, right after taking my heart medication and preparing for my annual colonoscopy, I yelled at a bunch of Prequel fans who were hanging around on my lawn, polluting it with lots of lame CGI crap.

Disney+ show-runners obviously feel free to ignore the post-2014 “canon” books. After abolishing the EU, Disney initially claimed that all new Star Wars media (books, movies, shows, video games, etc.) would fit into one unified, consistent canon. But in practice, Disney behaves as if the old Lucasfilm tiered canon levels (G-canon, C-canon, etc.) still exist. Essentially this means all the books/comics/games are a lower-level canon that is only valid when it doesn’t contradict the higher-level canon of the TV shows and movies.

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

Pete Byrdie said:

(Even though destroying a planet completely is utter overkill anyway. But I view the Death Stars more as mobile governing centres than just superweapons.)

Yeah, I mean presumably all life on a planet could be destroyed with just a few Star Destroyers and an extended orbital bombardment. But various rationalizations for the Death Star have been proposed over the years, including (1) some planets had planetary defense shields that could withstand an extended bombardment from conventional Star Destroyers (e.g. Hoth), but could not withstand the Death Star superlaser; (2) the whole point of the Death Star was massive overkill for the purpose of psychological warfare; or (3) the Death Star can also serve as a “mobile capitol” and administrative/military center as you said. I think a combination of all 3 rationalizations works pretty well to justify the existence of the Death Star story-wise.

Interestingly, regarding point 3, in A New Hope Palpatine doesn’t seem to be interested in relocating to the Death Star, and is instead content to entrust command to Tarkin. (But that’s really because at the time ANH was written, Palpatine was an ambiguous political puppet and an insignificant background detail, rather than a powerful evil sorcerer/mastermind.)

If the original 1977 human Jabba was included in the film, I think he’d be the only human in the OT to speak with an accent that is not either American or British. (He had an Irish accent).

It’s interesting that the OT featured little variation in English-speaking human accents, but a lot of actual alien languages. Beginning with the Prequels and continuing throughout modern Disney Star Wars, we see a much wider variation in human accents (New Zealand, Scottish, etc.), but much less actual alien languages with sub-titles.

Pete Byrdie said:

Greedo talks as though Jabba has already given up on Han and has already put a significant price on his head.

Shortly after, Jabba and Han talk as though Greedo is just Jabba’s lackey and Jabba is looking for Han to pay up, threatening only then to put a bounty on his head.

I agree with all this. Of course, there are ways to rationalize it. Perhaps Greedo is exaggerating Jabba’s anger level in order to trick Han into handing over all the money he owes Jabba - so that Greedo can pocket it, perhaps after killing Han. Greedo tells Han “If you give [the money] to me, I might forget I found you.”

But I agree the whole thing is still very weird - the two scenes are redundant, and suggest entirely different threat levels from Jabba. But early drafts of Star Wars indicate these two scenes were NOT supposed to be mutually exclusive. Both the Greedo scene and the Jabba scene appear together in early drafts, indicating Lucas really did originally want to have both scenes. The best explanation is that Greedo was trying to pocket the money owed to Jabba from Han. His name is “Greedo” after all.

You know, a weird byproduct of the way Disney depicts the New Republic is some very interesting (and likely inadvertent) political messaging. The Prequels depicted (poorly) the failure of a democracy and the rise of totalitarianism, driven by a populace who chose to “elect” an Emperor because they favored security over personal freedom. The Republic failed to resolve the Separatist conflict, embraced a massive war, resulting in an unprecedented military build-up as prelude to a police state. The messaging here is pretty obvious: don’t give your leaders too much power for the sake of security, and be skeptical about the military-industrial complex. It was a pretty typical message for the Bush-era, post 9-11 environment the Prequels were released in.

A decade later, the Disney Sequels come out, followed by all these New Republic based Disney+ shows. And bizarrely, Disney seems to have inadvertently imbued their content with the opposite message. In the Sequels, the New Republic government defunds its military and stubbornly refuses to believe the First Order is a serious threat. Only Leia takes measures to fight the First Order, and she is proven to be right.

Then in the various New Republic Disney+ shows, we see a similar dynamic: New Republic politicians and bureaucrats are constantly skeptical about any military threats to the Republic for some reason. Only our heroes (and an offscreen Princess Leia) take reports of any national security threats seriously. And of course, our heroes (and offscreen Leia) are always proven correct.

So bizarrely, Disney+ Star Wars is giving off something like a neo-conservative pro-war, pro-national security message: “Make sure you maintain a strong military and stay alert for national security threats - enemies of the Republic are everywhere! Don’t be a peace-loving idiot like that Senator in the Ahsoka show - build up your military and increase your defense budget!” The messaging tells us we need a strong military-industrial complex, otherwise our old enemies will regroup and take us out.

Of course, I don’t think this messaging is intentional. It’s just a fluke stemming from poor planning beginning with Force Awakens. J.J. Abrams wanted to do a soft reboot of the OT, which meant resetting the Galaxy back to Empire vs. Rebels. So the New Republic had to go. (J.J. didn’t care how. Just blow it up!) But in order to justify how it was destroyed so easily, the writers concocted this whole backstory where the New Republic government dismantles its military and inexplicably doesn’t take any national security threats seriously. So Leia has to go off on her own and fund a “resistance”. This weird skepticism of national security threats is then carried over into the Disney+ shows.

Anyway, I just think this inadvertent pro-military messaging is really hilarious.

fmalover said:

Channel72 said:

Gandalf the Cyan said:

I can give Lucas a bit of slack for the lucklusterness of the PT and ROTJ, since he was ultimately just trying to make pulpy Flash Gordon-esque adventures, not high-art movies. ANH and ESB, however, were so good that they’re generally considered to have entered into the realm of high art. He then fell into a trap where his subsequent films were expected to be masterpieces as well, and I agree that he could have definitely done better on them. But since he really knocked it out of the park on his first 2 SW films, fans’ expectations were higher than his.

I don’t think this opinion is too unpopular, especially around this forum. ESB especially came out amazingly good, but went over budget and probably gave Lucas ulcers from the stress. He probably never intended to make Star Wars that good - but it ended up being that good anyway due to “lightning in a bottle” factors like Kasdan’s script, Kershner’s direction, and the natural chemistry between Hamill, Fisher and Ford.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that TESB was co-written by Leigh Brackett? They always make it seem like Lawrence Kasdan was the sole screenwriter.

Well, I definitely don’t ignore that. In fact, I posted a whole thread about Brackett’s screenplay a while back. But the reality is that close to 0% of Brackett’s draft made it into the final shooting script, so her role is often glossed over for the sake of brevity when discussing the development process of ESB.

In fact, I wouldn’t even necessarily say Brackett “co-wrote” ESB. That implies a collaboration between Brackett and Kasdan. In reality, Brackett independently wrote a completely different take on ESB based on Lucas’ plot outline. Lucas then rewrote the script from scratch apparently. It’s hard to say how many ideas in Lucas’ rewrite originated with Brackett. At face value, the later Kasdan scripts (which were based on Lucas’ rewrite) appear to be completely independent from Brackett.

Personally, I believe that elements of Brackett’s draft influenced the way Kasdan/Lucas thought about the story as they developed it. But that’s just my own speculation. The broad story elements - the plot, the locations, even some specific things like Luke being attacked by a snow monster - originated from Lucas’ plot outline, not Brackett’s draft. So it’s tough to identify specific ideas in the final script that unambiguously originated with Brackett. But going by Kasdan’s fourth draft and the final shooting script, pretty much 0% of Brackett’s original writing or dialogue carried over into later iterations.

NFBisms said:

Anakin / Darth Vader is purposefully re-contextualized as a kid, and I think there is some value in foregoing the fabled ‘Jedi Hunts’ (that were sure to have happened between canonical III and IV anyway) to examine what made the monster at earlier psychological and political points. He’s a failure of institution, radicalized by war, exploited by an abuser, abandoned by pedagogy. It’s a different flavor of tragedy than personal failure.

Anakin’s downfall should probably contain elements of both systemic failure and personal failure. But I think it should be more heavily weighted towards personal failure. Perhaps something like 40% systemic failure (failures of the Jedi as an institution, experiencing the horrors and injustices of war, etc.), and 60% personal failure (Anakin just being turned on by the allure of power, and his need for control in a chaotic Universe). The greater emphasis on personal failure is really required for Vader’s redemption in ROTJ to have real dramatic weight. It really needs to be Vader’s choice to embrace the Dark Side, and also his choice to save his son in ROTJ.